Connecting with Edward Doty of the Mayflower with the Doughty family in Ulceby

Just recently, well in the  last few days I have been contacted by Email by a David Stapp from USA. David & I have corresponded before about my Doughty family who came from Ulceby, near Grimsby. He explains the reason for making contact again below:-

"I'm still chipping away at a 400 hundred year old mystery regarding the infamous Edward Doty.  More in particular, and I'm not sure if I ever clarified: my grandmother Doty married my grandfather Stapp.  My grandmother's family descends directly from Edward Doty, Mayflower passenger.  Quite honestly, I firmly believe Edward was part of the Humberside Doughty family, and most likely a relative of yours.  A few others agree with me about his origins, and hopefully it's only a matter of time before proving so.One distant cousin, who I've corresponded with is named Caleb Johnson.  He wrote a book regarding Stephen Hopkins, the man who brought Edward Doty to America as a servant.  Caleb is a direct descendant of Edward as well.  Caleb believes that our Edward is the same Edward Doty born 1600 in East Halton.  But until we find a modern day Doughty to test and prove scientifically, we can only speculate."

I would like to help, but unfortunately my DNA can only be tested to match up with Readman ancestry, not Doughty ancestry-David explains this:

"We've started a DNA project, that can test direct male lines.  y chromosome DNA (y-DNA) is passed on from father to son, over and over.  Since females have x chromosomes, they do not pass on the male y-chromosome.  Basically, as in John's case, he carries Readman y-DNA.  


So, as a male Doughty, you can test and find more about your Doughty family history.  Specifically whether your direct male ancestors were Vikings, Native Britons, or even Romans.   Edward Doty's line has proven to originate from good ol' Brittania.

Following this communication, I re-visited my Doughty Family History, in particular to try to trace living male Doughty relatives of which there are very few as far as I am aware. In My own family, my mother, Freda Doughty had two brothers, George & Peter Doughty.

George was born in 1920 & Peter in 1921, both had sons, George, married to Joyce Ross  had one in 1947 called Christopher & Peter married to Dorothy Simmonds had one called Clive. born 1949. 

The other Doughty family that I know of is that of Mark Doughty born 1921 in Kingston-upon-Hull. Mark & I communicated in 2000 when I re-commenced Family History research after my initial work in 1995. Mark had been in communication with my father & my aunt Marjorie, as he had been working on his genealogical project for some considerable time. It seems that Mark's ancestors had  kept a lot of genealogical information, and passed it down through the ages. Mark's father was an Wilfred Doughty, who had four sons, Raymond b. 1907, Maurice b. 1912, Joseph Arnold b. 1916 & Mark b. 1921. Raymond Doughty, who played saxophone, married Winifred Gardener & had 3 children, Gregory b. 1931, Brian b.1936 & Yvonne b. 1941. I knew that at least one son from that family might be alive. Mark & his wife had several sons-Mark had written to me in 2000 onwards and told me his family history, which I then was able to contribute to, finding another Doughty family in Canada, descended from a Uriah Doughty who emigrated to Toronto in 1852. I did search on 'net for Mark, and found he had deceased quite recently. I was able to find his eldest son, David, so at least there is a chance that David Stapp in USA may find some volunteers.

So the male Doughty members I found to help me do this DNA test, were Chris Doughty of Adelaide, South Australia, son of George DOUGHTY, my mother's younger brother in the photograph above. Then I found David DOUGHTY, son of Mark DOUGHTY of Dorval, Montreal, and then Richard DOUGHTY, son of Gregory DOUGHTY, who was the son of Raymond Doughty, brother of Mark Doughty, David Doughty's father.

Since then I have been following up research into Doughty history and found a lot out. Mark Doughty is descended from a Richard Doughty & Eliza Holt, just as I am and all those in Canada too. I am descended from their eldest son John born 1802, whilst Mark is descended from their eight child Richard born 1818, who married an Eliza Hyde in London. Both people were in service there,Richard butler to Lord Pelham, Earl of Yarborough, who had a house in London & Brocklesby, Lincolnshire. 

Those Doughty relations in Canada are descended from Uriah Doughty, Richard & Elizabeth's 9th child. Two of their other sons did not have children that survived. Charles did not marry & died in Brooklyn, USA, whilst his brother Charles died in Norwich, Chenango County, New York State-his son, Thomas Balderson Doughty died in the American Civil War. 

Last week I went to Ulceby and in the churchyard of St. Nicholas Parish Church found this gravestone.

A closer picture shows that this is the gravestone of Eliza Doughty who died in 1910 in Ulceby, widow of Richard Doughty, the couple who had been in London on July 19 1841, where they married at the parish church of St George in Hanover Square. Eliza was buried in the churchyard on 12 May 1910. 

Her husband Richard pre-deceased her having died in Hull on 22 December 1879, and the gravestone indicated where & when he was buried. 

York Herald - Wednesday 24 December 1879

On the 22nd instant, at Hull, and late of Brocklesby Station, Richard Doughty, aged 60.

Hull Packet - Wednesday 24 December 1879

DOUGHTY:- December 22, at 4, Charlotte’s Terrace, Clarendon-street, Hull and late of Brocklesby Station (of Bronchitis), Richard DOUGHTY, aged 60 years.

Hull General Cemetery, Grave 1054-so another gravestone to find it seems. I was prompted to find this gravestone following this newspaper article I found:

Hull Daily Mail - Friday 13 May 1910:

LATE MRS DOUGHTY

VENERABLE ULCEBY LADY

WITNESSED GEORGE IV’S CORONATION

LIVED IN SIX REIGNS

FUNERAL ON THURSDAY

On Saturday, Mrs Eliza Doughty passed away at the residence of her daughter, Mrs Charles Towle, Ulceby, Skitter, just on the threshold of her 94th birthday, having been born in London on May 19th, 1816, in the reign of George 111. She was taken away as a child to go and see the coronation of George IV in 1820. She was also present at the Coronation of Queen Victoria, whose long reign she outlived and that of Edward VII., for she lived a few hours in the reign of George V. Deceased, who had always taken a tremendous interest in Royalty, however, was too weak to be told of the death of King Edward. Mrs Doughty, with her late husband, who pre-deceased her 30 years ago, came into Lincolnshire in 1849. Mr. Richard Doughty was the station master at Brocklesby in the early days of the old M. S. and L. Railway, and Mrs Doughty could tell some interesting tales of the days of the old stage coach and the early days of railways. Right up to a short time before her death, Mrs Doughty retained her faculties, and had marvellous sight, and was a great reader right until the last. The “Hull and Lincolnshire Times” was always looked forward to every Saturday. She came of a long-lived family: her grandmother lived to be 91, and several others of her relations lived to be 80. She, however had not a relative left on her own side, except her own descendants, who number just about 80: 6 sons, 2 daughters, 34 grandchildren, and 28 great grandchildren. She was a kind, good mother, and thought a lot of her children, and up to her last illness took a great interest in all pertaining to their welfare, lamenting the somewhat laxity of present day parental control of the youngsters. Two sons reside in Hull, two daughters at Ulceby, the remainder being further afield. There was a large congregation at the funeral which took place on Thursday afternoon at the churchyard, the Rev. Hector Mawson, the Rector, officiating. Three generations were present, Mr. Doughty of Hull, assisted by Mr. Dexter, had charge of the funeral arrangements.

(FROM A SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR)

Since the publication of our last issue of “Hull Times”, the oldest inhabitant has passed to her rest. Mrs Doughty, who resided with her daughter, Mrs Towl, near the Station died on Saturday evening, the 7th inst., at the great age of 93, and short of 94 years by only 12 days. She was born on May 19th, 1816 in Tottenham Court road, London, when there were fields on one side. She has thus lived in the reign of six sovereigns, having survived King Edward V11 by one day. Her maternal grandmother was born in 1758 and lived 91 years. Mrs Doughty lived with her some years and there is thus the remarkable fact that she knew well a person who lived so long ago as 1758; truly a long stretch of years for two people. 

Her husband predeceased her over 30 years ago, and out of a family of nine children, six sons and two daughters survive. Her grandchildren number 33, 16 boys and 17 girls, and her great-grandchildren, 24, 14 boys and 10 girls, making a total of 65 descendants living. 

She witnessed the Coronation procession of George the Fourth from the windows of Gwydor House opposite Horse Guards, and again of Queen Victoria, as well as the latter’s wedding procession. 

She was married in July, 1841, at the fashionable church of St George, Hanover-square. In the early “thirties” she lived very near to Belgrave-street at the time of the late Mr. Gladstone lived at No. 2, and saw him very frequently before he entered Parliament.

She knew London well when it was lighted by oil-lamps, and the “Old Charlies” looked after the peace of its inhabitants, when steam was small in compass, railways, were not, and all our later inventions of telephone, gas, electric light, electric railways etc., were not even dreamed of.

Winters must have been very severe than we are accustomed to, for she was told of the year 1836 when a bullock was roasted on the ice covering the River Thames, and a fair held at the same time.

In 1848 she left London for Lincolnshire, where her husband had received an appointment on the M.S. and L. Railway, through the influence of the present Earl of Yarborough. They travelled by the old Great Eastern Line via Ely to Grimsby, leaving London at 6a.m. and reaching Grimsby at 6p.m. This was not then considered an unreasonable time to take over a journey. Mr. Doughty was the first station master at North Kelsey on the Lincoln line when the passenger trains numbered two per day. To celebrate the opening of the line, the Company ran a trip from Lincoln to Thornton Abbey, and she had the pleasure of riding in a cattle truck of which the train was principally composed and considering this excellent accommodation it is pleasing to record that no one grumbled. How exacting we have become in comparison in these days of great speed and luxury.

Her husband, in 1849, was appointed as station master at Brocklesby, which position he held until 1860 afterwards tenanting the Pelham Arms Inn.

She succumbed to her first attack of bronchitis, saying which she was perfectly healthy, and retained all her faculties to the last, and was able to write letters up to a short time before her death, She was much beloved by her family, as well as by her grand and great-grandchildren, of which there was always a gig testimony each year of her birthday.

The last scene was enacted on Thursday, the 12th inst., when her remains were laid to rest in the quiet churchyard, surrounding the Parish Church at Ulceby. Mrs Doughty being a member of the Church of England, the service was performed by the vicar, the Re. Hector Mawson, M.A., and in a most impressive manner. The hymns, “Jesu Lover of my soul”, and “At eventide it shall be light”, added a fitting solemnity to the occasion which had drawn together her family and friends from near and far. They included her eight children-Mrs Short and Mrs Towl, of Ulceby, daughters, Mr. Charles Doughty (Barnsley), Mr. George Doughty (Stockton-on-Tees), Mr Walter Doughty, Mr Eldred Doughty and Mr Alfred Doughty (of Hull), and Mr Frederick Doughty (London). Her grandchildren present numbered 16, and great grandchildren three, two of the former, the Rev. W. L. Doughty and Mr Oswald Doughty, having travelled from such long distances as Street in Somerset and London respectively.

As a tribute of love to her memory, the coffin was carried by four grandsons, Mr Walter Doughty, jun., Mr Oswald Doughty, Mr Wilfrid Doughty and Mr Austin Doughty.

So this prompted me to try find out a bit more about Eliza Hyde-Mark Doughty in his letter to me in 2001 wrote: Note on Eliza HYDE: Born the second child and second daughter of Catherine Dennis (of Edenham, Lincs), married William Bailey (died 1803, buried Edenham), she married Samuel Hoskins Hyde (sic) on September 1st 1812; he was a carpenter, but died in St John’s Wood, London, in 1824. Leaving Eliza Hyde to be committed to one of the Church of England Homes for impoverished children. She survived the horror to become a formidable Matriarch in N. Lincs.

Armed with the information in the above obituary namely " She came of a long-lived family: her grandmother lived to be 91, and several others of her relations lived to be 80. Her maternal grandmother was born in 1758 and lived 91 years. Mrs Doughty lived with her some years and there is thus the remarkable fact that she knew well a person who lived so long ago as 1758; truly a long stretch of years for two people."

I soon found a Katherine DENNIS born 1758 in Hacconby, Lincolnshire, but before considering her to be the same as mentioned by Mark Doughty I checked with Google Maps, and found that Hacconby & Edenham are only a short distance from each other, I have this old OS Map which shows Hacconby Edenham & Grimsthorpe quite close to each other with Bourne a little further south.

According to Lincstothepast, Catherine was christened in Hacconby on 23 November 1758, as daughter of a William Dennis. 

http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=832678&iid=356280

 Then on 14 May 1786 she married William Bailey-

No. 163: William Baileys & Catherine Dennis both of the parish of Edenham were married by licence on 14 May 1786 by John Myers, Vicar of Swinestead in Presence of Mary Scales & John Wood

http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=780321&iid=214178

Catherine's husband William spelled his name with an s at the end. Then this record: http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=782032&iid=214039

Edenham Parish Records - Baptisms & Burials (1792)

December 25 1792: Elizabeth daughter of William & Catherine Bailey

So Elizabeth Bailey was born in Edenham, in 1792 before Christmas Day that year. So now I had Eliza's mother & grandmother, so now to find, her mother's marriage to Samuel Hyde or Hide. 

So here it was Marriage

01 Sep 1812 • Saint Anne Soho,Westminster,London,England- 

Name Samuel Hide

Spouse's Name Elizabeth Bailey

Event Date 01 Sep 1812

Event Place Saint Anne Soho,Westminster,London,England

Then using Family Search I found this record:

Children of Samuel HIDE/HYDE & Elizabeth Bailey

Eliza Hide

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

birth: 19 May 1816

christening: 26 May 1816 SAINT ANNE SOHO, WESTMINSTER, LONDON, ENGLAND

father: Samuel Hide

mother: Elizabeth

Charles Hide

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

birth: 4 August 1819

christening: 29 August 1819 SAINT ANNE SOHO, WESTMINSTER, LONDON, ENGLAND

death: 17 September 1820

father: Samuel Hide

mother: Elizabeth

Francis Hide

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

birth: 21 September 1821

christening: 25 November 1821 SAINT ANNE SOHO, WESTMINSTER, LONDON, ENGLAND

father: Samuel Hide

mother: Elizabeth

So Eliza had two brothers, Francis & Charles, though Charles died soon after he was born. Now looking at this statement in the obituary: Her maternal grandmother was born in 1758 and lived 91 years. Mrs Doughty lived with her some years and there is thus the remarkable fact that she knew well a person who lived so long ago as 1758; truly a long stretch of years for two people. 

I searched for Catherine Bailey in the 1841 census, and found this record.

Living in the Hamlet of  Grimsthorpe in the parish of Edenham, aged 82, and living on her independent means was Cath Bailey aged 82, and living at the same house, was a Francis HYDE, aged 19, but not born in Lincolnshire. So this entry tided up the story that was told in the obituary. Cath Bailey, formerly Dennis, was 82 in 1841, & her great grandson, Francis Hyde, Eliza's brother was at her house in 1841. She lived on money from a will, so William Bailey must have left a will, when he died (in 1803) according to Mark Doughty, though I didn't find the burial in Edenham then.  

Then this record in LincstothePast:www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?

oid=537955&iid=214579

Edenham Parish Records - Burials (1849-1850) Catherine Bailey, of Grimsthorpe buried December 6th 1849, by W E Chapman. So Cath Bailey, nee Dennis died in Grimsthorpe & was buried in Edenham churchyard-wonder if there is a stone to mark her grave? Meanwhile in London, Her daughter Elizabeth Bailey is married to Samuel HYDE, with two children Eliza & Francis-but that's before Cath's death.
So now I am considering this passage in Mark Doughty's notes to me"Samuel Hoskins Hyde (sic) on September 1st 1812; he was a carpenter, but died in St John’s Wood, London, in 1824. Leaving Eliza Hyde to be committed to one of the Church of England Homes for impoverished children. She survived the horror to become a formidable Matriarch in N. Lincs."
I can only assume that this information must have come from Eliza Hyde herself, but as she died in 1910, 11 years before Mark Doughty was born, she must have told her family about it. It was Rosetta Doughty that recorded a lot of the Doughty Family History, it was Winifrede Doughty, daughter of Alfred Doughty, & Mark's aunt who gave him all the family information that must have told him this.
Okay so Samuel Hyde died in St John's Wood, London in 1824-he was buried in the churchyard of the parish of Marylebone on 11 April, 1824. His wife, Elizabeth HYDE was still alive though, so why couldn't she  look after the children, there were two of them, Eliza & Francis, Eliza would be 8 & Francis 3?  Unless of course she had to work to keep them-I know from the obituary above that Eliza & Francis did spend some time with their great grandmother Catherine Bailey nee Hyde-Francis was there aged 17 in 1841, Eliza married in that year. In the early 1830's we know that Eliza lived very near to Belgrave-street at the time of the late Mr. Gladstone lived at No. 2, by then she would have 14-17 years of age. The next event I know about Eliza Hyde was her marriage to Richard DOUGHTY.  So far I can't find where either Richard or Eliza were living in 1841, so I have applied for a marriage certificate. I know the date they married and that Richard was employed as a servant to Earl of Yarborough in his London house in Arlington Street, Picadilly-he may have been his butler. I know that they married on July 18, 1941 at St George's Hanover Square, London. 

Certified Copy of an entry of Marriage given at General Register Office: Application Number 7759406-1: true copy given 19 October 2016
1841 Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of St George, Hanover Square, Middlesex.
367: July 19. 1841, Richard DOUGHTY full age, Bachelor, servant, of Elizabeth St, son of Richard Doughty, Servant & Eliza HYDE, full age, spinster, no occupation given, of Carrington St, daughter of Samuel HYDE, Carpenter were married by banns by Philip Schofield, curate in presence of John Henry Goole & Elizabeth Goole.
So Eliza lived in Carrington Street, Mayfair, London in 1841 & Richard Doughty in Elizabeth Street, Belgravia. The record doesn't have on it the fact that by 1841 Eliza's father was deceased.

Anyway at present I am still waiting to hear from David as to the result of the DNA testing.

On 4 December I heard from David Stapp. Unfortunately our Doughty family are not related to Edward Doty of the Mayflower. However, another person who submitted their DNA to do the same test, has discovered that are matched to our Doughty family. This was David's message:-

"DNA results are in! "

So, it appears that you all are not directly related to Pilgrim Edward Doty.  However, you do match another one of our project members!

I've had the pleasure to speak with Ms. Sue Doughty, whose brother took the DNA test, and to whom you all match.  I've included her on this email.  She is very interested in speaking with you all and trying to find the missing link.

I've also included a report of the results and what they mean with this email.  Sue has tracked her line back to Edward Doughty, a butcher who came over to America from England in 1676.

PS: Your Doughty's are part of the R1b haplogroup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b) , which most likely means that they've been in Britain for a very long time.

So now I have to find a Doughty born in Ulceby prior to 1676 who went to London.