So he had traced his family in the records and found that a John Williams born 1733 had married on 30 November 1757 a Lettice Morgan, who was born 1738. Little is known about John Williams apart from that he was a senior tenant on the Edwinsford Estate, that was an estate surrounding Edwinsford House that lies between Talley & Llansawel. Talley is the anglicised version of the Welsh settlement called Talyllchau meaning "head of lakes", of which there are two at Talley and an old abbey. Edwinsford House was also known in Welsh as Rhydodyn. These days the original house has been demolished and new premises built. John & Lettice were tenants of Penlan Farm, now a private house, but in those days a farm of some 186 acres.There is a rather useful website about the parish of Llansawel: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llansawel/History#Rhydodyn
John died in 1808, and was buried at Llansawel according to this record.
John Williams
Wales, Carmarthenshire, Parish Registers
Name John Williams
Event Type Burial
Event Date 21 Sep 1808
Event Place Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Citing this Record
"Wales, Carmarthenshire, Parish Registers, 1538-1912," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCGZ-JRN : 3 September 2015), John Williams, 21 Sep 1808, Burial; from "Parish Records Collection 1538-2005," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : 2012); citing Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Wales, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey.
So his eldest son, John Williams, born 1764 would have taken over took over the tenancy of Penlan Farm when his father died in 1808, but he wouldn't have held it long. However his eldest surviving son, David WILLIAMS, born 9 November 1788, took on the tenancy of Wion Farm on his marriage day to Lettice WILLIAMS, who was the daughter of a miller called William WILLIAMS.
References to farms in the parishes of Llansawel:
Penylan...........................260a., 1 r., 21 p..............£150.0.0.
Gamwen or Garnwen........30a., 3 r., 25 p................£29.18.9
Rhyglyn...........................152a., 2 r., 25 p................£93.0.0
Wion................................70a., 3 r., 16 p.................£37.17.8
Llansawel mill and land........4a., 0 r., 35 p.................£32.0.0
House and garden, Moses Harris........0a.,1 r., 22 p.....£0.8.0
Esker living.....................135a., 1 r., 7 p....................£20.0.0 [ on margin £30]
Blaenachthy....................408a., 0 r., 32 p................£205.9.2
Now as you can see from the above website, Wion Farm had an acreage of 70 acres, 3 roods, 16 perches & paid an annual rent of £37 17s 8d.
Alwyn found that the farm had been divided into two farms as evidenced in the 1841 census
1841 Wales Census for David WILIAMS
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 8
Weyon: David WILLIAMS, 50, Agricultural Labourer, Born Carmarthenshire
Lettice WILLIAMS, 50, Born Carmarthenshire
David WILLIAMS, 20, born Carmarthenshire
Anne WILLIAMS, 15, born Carmarthenshire
Thomas SIMON, 60, ? born Carmarthenshire
Anne Lewis, 8, born Carmarthenshire
Weyon: Daniel DAVIES, 20, Agricultural Labourer, born Carmarthenshire
Mary DAVIES, 20, Born Carmarthenshire
David DAVIES, 2 born Carmarthenshire
This record about Lettice Williams, daughter of William Williams a corn miller, most likely at Llansawel Mill, and information about Wion Farm must have come from the National Archives of Wales at Aberystwyth because at that place they hold records about Rhydodn the Ancestral home of the Drummond family.
As to the name "Wion" in a pedigree of Thomas Griffiths, Lord of Lampeter, circa 1588, we find in following the pedigree that a certain Llewelyn Lloyd, ap David, ap Llewelyn, had amongst his sons one named "Gwion". This farm--- "Wion"--- was at one time in that son's possession and was called after his name. It is a common custom to call houses and lands after persons' names.
Lettice Williams: She was a local girl and the daughter of a corn miller. She was literate and wrote in a clear round hand. The Llansawel Church records show that she married David after the banns were read on 6th and 13th June 1808.
Above you can see the marriage record from Find my Past-copy of the original record. As you can see, both David & Lettice could write, and they had 2 witnesses as well, Elias Evan & John Richard.
Alwyn's script about Wion Farm
It was probably through her connection, that her son David eventually became a corn miller and agricultural merchant. Her life would have been particularly hard. Wion Farm was remote. Water would have come from a surface spring in the hillside and had to be carried into the house. The lavatory was an earth closet below the farmyard. There would only be the odd oil lamp for lighting and all the cooking would have to be done in and over a primitive open range fire. Supplies would be brought from Llansawel once each week by pack horse or cart, apart from groceries everything eaten would either have been killed, grown or made on the farm. In addition to farm work and also domestic responsibilities, she would have had the burden of childbearing and bringing up the family and fulfilling all the manifold duties of a wife and mother. She died at the age of 63 on 27 December 1852
10 years later, David & Lettice are still at Wion Farm-the census of 1851 lists them as thus:
1851 Wales Census for David Williams
Carmathanshire, Llansawel, District 1a
25: Wion:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 61, Farmer of 40 acres, employing one labourer, born Llansawel, Camarthanshire
Lettice WILLIAMS, wife, Married, 59, born Llansawel, Camarthanshire
Ann WILLIAMS, daughter, Unmarried, 25, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Camarthanshire
Thomas SIMON, Lodger, Widower, 72, Born Llanfynyd, Carmarthenshire,
Lettice died on 27 December 1852 at Wion Farm and was buried in Llansawel churchyard-there is a gravestone apparently, but I have yet to find it. Here is the record of the burial from Llansawel Church records:
You can from the above record that Lettice died at Wion, Llansawel and was buried on 27 December, 1852 aged 63, so born 1789.
Alwyn's script about David Williams husband of Lettice Williams.
Alwyn stated in his "Williams Pedigree, that David Williams, husband of Lettice, died in 1854, but he didn't, as I now have discovered, because he was on the 1861 Census as a widower, living with his son David.
David WILLIAMS, Father, Widower, 71, Agricultural Labourer, born Pencarreg, Carmanthenshire
So the children of David & Lettice Williams are above:
James born 17 November 1811, died 22 October 1814, William, born 25 August 1813, died 122 October 1814: I think those birth dates are the christening dates, and the death dates are the burial dates.
So this next David Williams was born 4 June 1817 whilst the family were living on Wion Farm, just outside Llansawel. It looks like looking at the tree above, that he was first surviving child of the family, his first two siblings, James & William, though born within two years of each other, one in 17 November 1811, and William on 25 August 1813, they both died on the same day on 22 October 1814-so something like an accident must have occurred to have both young children dying together.
After the birth of David, came James Williams, born 22 November 1819, died 18 December 1892, then Elizabeth born 22 January 1822, died, 1910 & then Anne, born 18 July 1825, died 28 August 1906.
Alwyn discovered this about the children above and wrote about them in his "Williams Pedigree"
Gwilwenne Uchaf mean Upper Gwilwenne.
Marriages Dec 1846, Vaughan, William at Llandilofawr, 26, 867 & Williams Elizabeth Llandilofawr 26 867.
On his marriage day to Mary Evans, on the 4 August 1843, his marriage certificate states that he lived at Wion Farm and was a labourer. His wife, Mary Evans was the daughter of John Evans and his wife Hannah. Mary was born in 1823 in the village of Llanllwni, about 11 miles from Llansawel, daughter of John Evans and his wife Hannah. David took on the tenancy of Llansawel Mill with its 5 acres of land.(see above Llansawel mill and land........4a., 0 r., 35 p.................£32.0.0)
This record about Lettice Williams, daughter of William Williams a corn miller, most likely at Llansawel Mill, and information about Wion Farm must have come from the National Archives of Wales at Aberystwyth because at that place they hold records about Rhydodn the Ancestral home of the Drummond family.
As to the name "Wion" in a pedigree of Thomas Griffiths, Lord of Lampeter, circa 1588, we find in following the pedigree that a certain Llewelyn Lloyd, ap David, ap Llewelyn, had amongst his sons one named "Gwion". This farm--- "Wion"--- was at one time in that son's possession and was called after his name. It is a common custom to call houses and lands after persons' names.
Lettice Williams: She was a local girl and the daughter of a corn miller. She was literate and wrote in a clear round hand. The Llansawel Church records show that she married David after the banns were read on 6th and 13th June 1808.
Alwyn's script about Wion Farm
It was probably through her connection, that her son David eventually became a corn miller and agricultural merchant. Her life would have been particularly hard. Wion Farm was remote. Water would have come from a surface spring in the hillside and had to be carried into the house. The lavatory was an earth closet below the farmyard. There would only be the odd oil lamp for lighting and all the cooking would have to be done in and over a primitive open range fire. Supplies would be brought from Llansawel once each week by pack horse or cart, apart from groceries everything eaten would either have been killed, grown or made on the farm. In addition to farm work and also domestic responsibilities, she would have had the burden of childbearing and bringing up the family and fulfilling all the manifold duties of a wife and mother. She died at the age of 63 on 27 December 1852
10 years later, David & Lettice are still at Wion Farm-the census of 1851 lists them as thus:
1851 Wales Census for David Williams
Carmathanshire, Llansawel, District 1a
25: Wion:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 61, Farmer of 40 acres, employing one labourer, born Llansawel, Camarthanshire
Lettice WILLIAMS, wife, Married, 59, born Llansawel, Camarthanshire
Ann WILLIAMS, daughter, Unmarried, 25, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Camarthanshire
Thomas SIMON, Lodger, Widower, 72, Born Llanfynyd, Carmarthenshire,
Lettice died on 27 December 1852 at Wion Farm and was buried in Llansawel churchyard-there is a gravestone apparently, but I have yet to find it. Here is the record of the burial from Llansawel Church records:
Alwyn's script about David Williams husband of Lettice Williams.
Alwyn stated in his "Williams Pedigree, that David Williams, husband of Lettice, died in 1854, but he didn't, as I now have discovered, because he was on the 1861 Census as a widower, living with his son David.
David WILLIAMS, Father, Widower, 71, Agricultural Labourer, born Pencarreg, Carmanthenshire
He too was buried in Llansawel churchyard.
Meanwhile, Lettice & David's son, David Williams, are on the next section of Alwyn's tree:
James born 17 November 1811, died 22 October 1814, William, born 25 August 1813, died 122 October 1814: I think those birth dates are the christening dates, and the death dates are the burial dates.
So this next David Williams was born 4 June 1817 whilst the family were living on Wion Farm, just outside Llansawel. It looks like looking at the tree above, that he was first surviving child of the family, his first two siblings, James & William, though born within two years of each other, one in 17 November 1811, and William on 25 August 1813, they both died on the same day on 22 October 1814-so something like an accident must have occurred to have both young children dying together.
After the birth of David, came James Williams, born 22 November 1819, died 18 December 1892, then Elizabeth born 22 January 1822, died, 1910 & then Anne, born 18 July 1825, died 28 August 1906.
Alwyn discovered this about the children above and wrote about them in his "Williams Pedigree"
Gwilwenne Uchaf mean Upper Gwilwenne.
Marriages Dec 1846, Vaughan, William at Llandilofawr, 26, 867 & Williams Elizabeth Llandilofawr 26 867.
On his marriage day to Mary Evans, on the 4 August 1843, his marriage certificate states that he lived at Wion Farm and was a labourer. His wife, Mary Evans was the daughter of John Evans and his wife Hannah. Mary was born in 1823 in the village of Llanllwni, about 11 miles from Llansawel, daughter of John Evans and his wife Hannah. David took on the tenancy of Llansawel Mill with its 5 acres of land.(see above Llansawel mill and land........4a., 0 r., 35 p.................£32.0.0)
You can see the Corn Mill on the map above together with Mill Pond. This map is dated 1886, 43 years later than when David & Mary moved into the mill house. This website Llansawel: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llansawel/History#Rhydodyn lists the millers at Llansawel Mill as
Moses Harris in 1810 & John Lloyd [Jack Llwyd] in 1844, so I wonder if the baptism entries for David & Mary's children list their father's occupation as miller or farmer. There are Parish Records of Llansawel at the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth, so maybe that's the place to go to seek them out.
This is a picture of the tree with the children of David & Mary Williams.
Mary & David's first child was named Margaret Williams, and she was born in 1843. As to where Margaret was born, the census of 1851 states that it was Bettws, Carmarthenshire, a place about 70 miles from Llansawel, whereas the census of 1861 states it was Llansawel. Free BMD has 3 Margaret Williams born in the registration district covering Llansawel which is Llandilofawr. This same registration area covers Bettws as well.
Births Mar 1843 (>99%)
Williams Margaret Llandilofawr 26 517 Scan available - click to view
Williams Margaret Llandilofawr 26 508 Scan available - click to view
Williams Margaret Llandilofawr 26 523
So Margaret was born before David & Mary got married.
Anyway Margaret Williams married Joseph Davies, a farm labourer on 13 November 1860 at Llansawel Parish Church, and between them they had at least(according to the various census) eleven children, 6 daughters and 5 sons. The children's names were: Anne, Mary, James, Margaret, Sarah, Lettice, David, Jane, Peter, Herbert & Robin.
When I started doing this family History Blog I found this resource: Welsh Newspapers Online http://newspapers.library.wales/home a resource from the National Library of Wales. I put into the search system the word "Melinwaun" which was the Water Mill that David & Mary Williams lived in in the 1870's. One of the newspaper articles that came up was this one:
This is a picture of the tree with the children of David & Mary Williams.
Mary & David's first child was named Margaret Williams, and she was born in 1843. As to where Margaret was born, the census of 1851 states that it was Bettws, Carmarthenshire, a place about 70 miles from Llansawel, whereas the census of 1861 states it was Llansawel. Free BMD has 3 Margaret Williams born in the registration district covering Llansawel which is Llandilofawr. This same registration area covers Bettws as well.
Births Mar 1843 (>99%)
Williams Margaret Llandilofawr 26 517 Scan available - click to view
Williams Margaret Llandilofawr 26 508 Scan available - click to view
Williams Margaret Llandilofawr 26 523
So Margaret was born before David & Mary got married.
Anyway Margaret Williams married Joseph Davies, a farm labourer on 13 November 1860 at Llansawel Parish Church, and between them they had at least(according to the various census) eleven children, 6 daughters and 5 sons. The children's names were: Anne, Mary, James, Margaret, Sarah, Lettice, David, Jane, Peter, Herbert & Robin.
When I started doing this family History Blog I found this resource: Welsh Newspapers Online http://newspapers.library.wales/home a resource from the National Library of Wales. I put into the search system the word "Melinwaun" which was the Water Mill that David & Mary Williams lived in in the 1870's. One of the newspaper articles that came up was this one:
The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser 12th August 1910
TALLEY: Obituary:- Mrs. Margaret DAVIES, Swansea, daughter of Mrs. Williams Parcydilfa (formerly of Melinwaun, Talley), passed peacefully away recently, and her remains were buried at Llansawel, on Tuesday last. Everyone feels great sympathy for Mrs. Williams, who is far passed four-score and ten, and the whole family.
The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser 19 August 1910
Llansawel
FUNERAL. The funeral took place on Tuesday in last week of Mrs. Margaret Davies (widow of the late Mr. Joseph Davies), of 153, St .Helen's Avenue, Swansea. Mrs. Davies was the daughter of the late Mr. and Mrs. Williams, of Melinwaun, and was very highly respected. The Rev. Michael Williams, C.M., Ci'fynvdd. officiated. The chief mourners were Messrs. David and Johnnie Davies (sons); Mr. and Mrs. Wm. Richards, Swansea (daughter and son-in-law); Mr. and Mrs. Davies, Llansamlet (daughter and son-in-law); Mr. and Mrs. John Williams, Talley (daughter and son-in-law); Mr. and Mrs. Powell, Llansaint (daughter and son- in-law) Mr. and the Misses Williams, Llandovery, and Miss Williams, Talley (grand-children); Miss Sarah Williams, late Melinwaun (sister); Mrs. Rees (sister); Mr. Rees (nephew); Mrs. Jones, Cardiff (sister); Mrs. Davies, Hereford (sister), etc. Beautiful floral tributes were sent by her children, mother, brothers and sisters.
So by looking at this newspaper article I had found the life of Margaret Williams. You can see that in 1910, she and her husband Joseph Davies lived in Swansea at 153, St. Helen's Avenue. He died before she did, I think between April & June 1910.
Now for Mary & David Williams second child. She was called Lettice Williams, well that must be quite a Williams traditional name for a daughter! She was born on 8 June 1847 at Llansawel, so in the millhouse.
Royal Commission on Land in Wales and Monmouthshire in http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llansawel/History#Sanitary
There is a description of the millhouse as it was 47 years after Lettice was born in 1847: "Llansawel Mill--- low thatched house, leaking, no proper loft, no windows or ventilation, and no partition up in the sleeping place, and yet obliged to use it for sleeping, for both sexes. It is not the worst, but it is near enough for you to see it if you will come over, it is on the Edwinsford Estate."
The Commissioners inspected this house, which was described as a disgraceful hovel.
This is an extract from "Williams Pedigree" by Alwyn Williams.
Lettice Williams
She was tall, with red hair and a fair complexion. She married Jacob Rees and they lived for a short time in Llandeilo before moving to Swansea. They had a son named David Edward, who married Mary Jane, and they in turn had two children, one of whom was still alive and lives in Treboth, Swansea. Doris Cunliffe now aged 85, recalls her grandmother Lettice well and with great affection. It was Lettice’s son and Doris’s father, David, who acted jointly with Daniel my grandfather, in the administration of “Arthur Lovell’s” will. Doris says that with his share of the estate, her father went on a world cruise. Doris had a fund of stories to tell about her grannie Lettice, which could easily be the subject of a separate note. Doris herself is worth a chapter.
Alwyn Williams, October 1987:
This is the census for this Williams family in 1851:
1851 Wales Census for David WILLIAMS
Carmarthenshire, Llansawel, District 1b
Entry 67: Llansawel Mill:
David WILLIAMS: Head, Married, 34, Miller and Farmer of 5 acres, Born Llansawel, Carmanthenshire
Mary WILLIAMS: Wife, Married, 28, Miller’s wife, Born Llanllwny, Carmanthenshire
Margaret WILLIAMS, daughter, 8, Miller’s daughter, born Bettws, Carmanthenshire.
Lettice WILLIAMS, daughter, 6, Miller’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmanthenshire.
Mary WILLIAMS, daughter, 4, Miller’s daughter, born LLansawel, Carmanthenshire.
James WILLIAMS, son, 1, Miller’s Son, born Llansawel, Carmanthenshire.
John JENKINS, Servant, Unmarried, 17, Mill Servant, Born Llanwenog, Cardiganshire
David Davies, Lodger, Married, 37, Ag Lab, Born Llanfihangel Rhosycora, Carmanthenshire
Anne Lewis, Servant, Unmarried, 18, House Servant, born Conwil Gaio, Carmathenshire.
Living in the mill was quite a dangerous place for a child as these accidents reported in http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llansawel/History
The daughter of the above John Lloyd was killed in the mill in 1846 whilst engaged in "malu Cynnos Harri'r Castell". Her age was 21 years. She was buried at Crugybar. The following hymn was sung as the funeral proceeded through the town:---[not extracted].
On October 13th 1883, John Davies, a bright lad of 13 years, the son of William Davies, the present miller, was killed in some wheels in the mill. He was buried at Bethel Churchyard.
In 1896, Daniel Davies, aged three years, son of David Davies of the mill [grandson of William Davies], fell into the mill pond, and was drowned
The Carmarthen Weekly Reporter 21st February 1896:
.LLANSAWEL. SAD FATALITY.-Last Friday, about half past four, in the afternoon, an accident occurred at Llansawel Mill, which terminated fatally. Daniel Davies, aged 3 years, the young son of Mr D. Davies, of the Mill, by some means unknown, for he was not seen in the act, fell into the mill pond. About ten minutes previously he had been spoken to, and was not missed till too late. His father nearly lost his life by getting the child out, through sticking in the mud. Sir James and Lady Drummond happened to be near at the time, and all aid was promptly accorded, but without avail.
So you can see that by 1851, David & Mary had 4 children in the family to maintain, Margaret, born 1843, Lettice or often known as Letitia, born 1847, Mary born about 1848, and James born about 1849. The problem is finding the birth registration of these children as there are so many children called by those names being born and registered in the registration district of Llandilofawr.
For example looking up the births on Free BMD has this result:
Births Mar 1848 (>99%)
WILLIAMS Mary Llandilofawr 26 556
Births Jun 1848 (>99%)
Williams Mary Llandilofawr 26 644
Births Sep 1848 (>99%)
WILLIAMS Mary Llandilofawr 26 609
WILLIAMS Mary Llandilofawr 26 608
That's why finding the child's christening, which parents often thought was more important than birth registration, or was instead of birth registration, points towards when the child was born. Alwyn found that during his research, in the early days, the family supported the established Church of Wales, whereas later on they supported Methodism, which in Llansawel was known as Calvinistic Methodism. The Established church was the only one to maintain records. Dyfed Family History Society states that the Calvanistic Methodist Church in Llansawel has these records: Baptisms 1818-1836, TNA • Marriages , • Burials , • Monumental Inscriptions , whereas the Church of Wales known as St Sawyl Bishops Transcripts 1675-1857, NLW • Baptisms 1751-1979, NLW • Marriages 1751-1970, NLW • Burials 1751-1980, NLW • Monumental Inscriptions.(NLW means National Library of Wales at Aberystwyth.)
This what Alwyn had to say about Mary Williams, David & Mary's third child, born between July & September 1848.
No. 22: Mary Williams daughter of David & Mary Williams nee Evans
The only reference to her is her birth registration. Following the birth of Alfred (see no. 19.), she either married or moved away from the district and became lost to our records. Doris Cunliffe does not recall having seen her or heard her name discussed in the family.
I can't find anything in Alwyn's records about her birth registration. When talking about Mary Williams he mentions the birth of a son called Alfred Williams, but suggests that he was the son of Mary Williams, not that there is any evidence that he was. Alfred appears in 3 census after 1871-namely 1891, 1901 & 1911.
I shall come to Alfred later, meanwhile, will move on with their fourth child, a son in the 1851 census called James Williams born 1849, aged 1 in the census above. The gravestone for James is in Llansawel Graveyard-I took a photograph of it when Fran & I went to the church in 2013.
Yes, all in Welsh, which I don't speak, nor understand, so having copied the inscription from the stone I put it into a Welsh/English translation site:http://www.etranslator.ro/translate-welsh-to-english.php
IN MEMORY OF JAMES WILLIAMS SON DAVID AND MARY WILLIAMS, MELINWAEN, PLYYF, TALYLLCHAU, WHO DIED, JANUARY 3rd 1865 AT THE AGE OF 15
So we know when & where James died and where he was buried. He was with his parents in Llansawel in the 1861 Census- 1861 census for David WILLIAMS
Carmarthenshire, Llansawel, District 2.
Entry 2: Clynymarch:
James WILLIAMS, son, 11, Farmer’s Son, born Llansawel, Carmathenshire. But by January 1865, he and his parents had moved to a mill called Melinwaun, but that's when James died as in the gravestone above.According to a newspaper called Welsh flag and Times, on 11th January 1865, http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4261857/4261862/12/
4ydd Mr. James Williams, Felinwaun, Talley, o’r dwymyn goch. Duw a gysuro ei rieni galarus which means using Google Translate "4th Mr. James Williams, Felinwaun, Talley, from scarlet fever. God comfort his grieving parents"
The fifth child of David & Mary on the tree above is Anne Williams, born 1851. Well she wasn't on the census of 1851 so if she was born in that year it was after the date of that census-30th March, 1851.
When Anne Williams was born after 30 March 1851 in Carmarthenshire, her father, David, was 33, and her mother, Mary, was 28. She had three brothers and six sisters. She died on 25 August 1906 in Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, at the age of 55.
Birth of Sister
Her sister Elizabeth was born in 1853 in Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, when Anne was 2 years old.
Birth of Sister
Her sister Sarah was born in 1855 in Carmarthenshire when Anne was 4 years old.
Birth of Brother
Her brother Daniel Edmund was born on 19 May 1857 in Talley, Carmarthenshire, when Anne was 6 years old.
Birth of Sister
Her sister Jane was born in 1860 in Carmarthenshire when Anne was 9 years old.
Residence
Anne Williams lived in Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, in 1861.
She is on the 1861 Census, with her parents: Here's that record:
1861 census for David WILLIAMS
Carmarthenshire, Llansawel, District 2.
Entry 2: Clynymarch:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 44, Farmer of 120 acres, Born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Mary WILLIAMS, Wife, Married, 38, Farmer’s Wife, Born Llanllwny, Carmanthenshire
Letitia WILLIAMS, daughter, 15, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmanthenshire
Mary WILLIAMS, daughter, 13, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmanthenshire
James WILLIAMS, son, 11, Farmer’s Son, born Llansawel, Carmathenshire
Anne WILLIAMS, daughter, 9, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Elizabeth WILLIAMS, daughter, 8, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Sarah WILLIAMS, daughter, 6, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Daniel WILLIAMS, son, 3, Farmer’s son, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Jane WILLIAMS, 1, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
David JONES, Servant, Unmarried, 24, Servant in Husbandry, born Conwilgail, Carmarthenshire
David WILLIAMS, Father, Widower, 71, Agricultural Labourer, born Pencarreg, Carmanthenshire
So sometime between, 1851 & 1861, David & Mary and family move from Llansawel Mill to a farm to the north of Llansawel. It's just above the letter A in A W E L. I suppose the only way we would know when they went there would be to find a christening of one of the children that would show the abode & occupation of David Williams father of the children.
Clyn-y-march means Clyn the stallion.
Inscription from the gravestone above for Annie
HEFYD AM ANNE EU MERCH BU FARW AWST 25 1906, YN 55 MLWYDD OED
ALSO ABOUT ANNE THEIR DAUGHTER WHO DIED AUGUST 25 1906 AGED 55 YEARS
The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser
31st August 1906
TALLEY
DEATH: Miss Annie Williams, Melinwaun, Talley, died on Saturday morning last, and her funeral took place on Wednesday. The Rev. J. Alban Davies officiated at the house, and the burial took place in Llansawel Churchyard.
The other name on the 1861 Census which I wasn't expecting to see was this one:-
David WILLIAMS, Father, Widower, 71, Agricultural Labourer, born Pencarreg, Carmanthenshire.
So this David Williams whom Alwyn stated died in 1854, was still alive in 1861, and he was born according to this census entry in 1790 in Pencarreg, Carmarthenshire, which according to http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Pencarreg
Pencarreg is a village and community located in Carmarthenshire, Wales, 4 miles to the south-west of Lampeter. Settlement is primarily grouped around the A485 road from Lampeter to Carmarthen.This is a bit ofd because in the census of 1851, that same David Williams says he was born in Llansawel. The census entry is above, but here it is again to remind you:
1851 Wales Census for David Williams
Carmathanshire, Llansawel, District 1a
25: Wion:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 61, Farmer of 40 acres, employing one labourer, born Llansawel, Camarthanshire
I have purchased a microfiche from Dyfed Family History Society on the Mounmental Inacriprions in Llansawel Churchyard so hopefully will be able to find out from them when David & his wife Lettice died and when & where they were buried.
Another name on the 1861 census was their sixth child, a daughter called Elizabeth Williams born 1853, in Llansawel-she isn't mentioned on Alwyn's tree names above, mind you after the 1861 census I can't find her yet myself.
Now in the year 2021, thanks to another Williams Researcher on Ancestry called Danny Reed, I have discovered much more about Elizabeth Williams. It seems that after the Census of 1861, when she was 8 years of age, sometime between that year and the the next census year of 1871, Elizabeth moved to the London area, because in the 1871 Census, Elizabeth is living at 12, Grosvenor Place, at St. George's, Hanover Square, Westminster, at the home of Thomas Bateson & his wife, & family, in which there are 9 servants, including Elizabeth Williams, aged 26, and is employed as a kitchen maid.
The next child on the 1861 census, David & Mary's seventh child was Sarah WILLIAMS, daughter, born 1855, so on the 1861 Census, aged 6, a Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Sarah stays with her parents for all her life as she always appears with the family on census day, excapt on the 1881 Census. She remains a spinster all her life. The first time she appears on the census is in the 1861 census, and she is there again on the 1871 Census too. But then she isn't on the 1881 Census, and nor is her sister Mary either. She is with her parents again on Census day 1891, 1901 & 1911.
When Sarah Williams was born in 1855 in Carmarthenshire, her father, David, was 38, and her mother, Mary, was 32.
She died on 22 September 1912 in Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, at the age of 57.
Her brother Daniel Edmund, David & Mary's eighth child, was born on 19 May 1857 in Talley, Carmarthenshire, when Sarah was 2 years old.
Her sister Jane, David & Mary's ninth child, was born in 1860 in Carmarthenshire when Sarah was 5 years old.
Sarah Williams lived in Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, in 1861.
Her half-brother David Coethyr was born on 29 November 1864 in Carmarthenshire when Sarah was 9 years old. David's mother was Sarah's mother, Mary Williams nee Evans, but David's father wasn't Mary's Williams husband.
Her brother James died on 3 January 1865 in Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, when Sarah was 10 years old.Sarah Williams lived in Talley, Carmarthenshire, in 1871.
ALSO FOR THEIR DAUGHTER SARAH WHO DIED ON 22 SEPTEMBER 1912 AGED 37 YEARS.
Now for some information about Alfred Williams as mentioned above.
When Alfred was born on 23 May 1879 in Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Mary, was 24 years of age. I have mentioned above about this lad called Alfred Williams which Alwyn states was the son of Mary Williams, but I don't have documents to prove this. Alfred's name appears first on the census entries in the 1891 Census, when you would think that because he was born on 23 May 1879 he would have been in the 1881 census.
1881 Wales Census for David Williams
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 6
Schedule No. 56, Melinwaun:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 65, Corn Miller & Farmer of 40 acres, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire
Mary WILLIAMS, wife, Married, 58, Farmer’s Wife, born Llansawel, Carmathenshire
Anne WILLIAMS, daughter, Unmarried, 30, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmathenshire
Morgan DAVIES, Servant, Unmarried, 15, Indoor Farm Servant, born Llansawel, Carmathenshire.
Titus DAVIES, Lodger, Unmarried, 32, Carpenter, Born Llanllwni, Carmarthenshire.
Thomas DAVIES, Lodger, Unmarried, 19, Gardener, Born Llanfynydd, Carmarthenshire.
The family in this census are still at Melinwaun, the mill in the valley. David, father of most of the children is 7 years older than his wife Mary. There are several persons by the surname of Davies, so I wonder if they are the children of Margaret Davies nee Williams and her husband Joseph.
You can see from the above record of the census Alfred Williams wasn't on the census, but then neither was Sarah, Mary & Jane Williams. However 10 years later both Alfred & Sarah are on the census, but still not Mary & Jane Williams.
1891 Census for David WILLIAMS
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 06
Schedule 3: Melinwaun:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 74, Farmer & Miller, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Speaks Welsh
Mary WILLIAMS, Wife, Married, 68, Born Llanllwni, Cardiganshire, speaks Welsh.
Ann WILLIAMS, Daughter, Single, 38, Miller’s Assisitant, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Speaks Welsh.
Sarah WILLIAMS, daughter, Single, 33, Domestic Assistant, Born Llansawel, Carmathenshire, Speaks both English & Welsh.
Alfred WILLIAMS, Grandson, 11, Scholar, born Talley, Carmarthenshire, Speaks both English & Welsh.
David Davies, Grandson, Single, 16, Farm Servant, Born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Speaks, both English & Welsh.
Ezra William Francy, Lodger, Single, 37, Carpenter, Born, Sloley, Norfolk, Speaks English.
Henry Edwards, Lodger, Single, 24, Painter, Born Norwich, Norfolk, Speaks English.
George Alburn, Lodger, Single, 30, Painter, Born Norwich, Norfolk, Speaks English
David Davies was the son of Margaret Williams & Joseph Davies.
I found Alfred's birth date, when I found his death date in Ashford Kent. Name Alfred Williams, Birth Date: 23 May 1879: Date of Registration Dec 1975 Age at Death 96, Registration district Ashford, Inferred County Kent, Volume 16 Page 0018
Probate: Alfred WILLIAMS, of 22 Sussex Avenue, Ashford, Kent, died 8 August 1975, Administration with Will Brighton, 9 October, £9,848.
Alwyn in his notes states this about Alfred:
Probate: Alfred WILLIAMS, of 22 Sussex Avenue, Ashford, Kent, died 8 August 1975, Administration with Will Brighton, 9 October, £9,848.
Alwyn in his notes states this about Alfred:
Probably the only way to find his parents would be to obtain his birth certificate. Free BMD has this record of his birth Births Sep 1879 Williams, Alfred, Llandilofawr 11a 777: Llandilofawr is the registration district for persons whose births were recorded in Llansawel. The trouble is that if Alfred was born to one of David & Mary Williams' daughters, outside of marriage, very often when that happened, the official records-birth certificates & christening records rarely carried the name of the child's father, only its mother. But getting such a record would prove whom his mother was.
I found these articles in local newspapers about Alfred who served in the Boer War.
The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser
22 March 1901
TALLEY. HOMECOMNG OF TROOPER ALFRED WILLIAMS.- Enthusiasm and patriotism reached their climax at Talley on Saturday last when Trooper Alfred Williams, of the 13th Hussars, came home from Netley Hospital, where for some six weeks he had been obliged to remain owing to enteric. All followers of war news will remember the active part taken by the 13th Hussars in the relief of Ladysmith and in the several engagements in that neighbourhood. It is therefore no wonder Talley showed signs of excitement when one of its own boys, who had been called to South Africa at the beginning of the war, served under that gallant soldier Buller, and had come through all without a scratch came again to his friends, relatives, and acquaintances. Early in the afternoon the village drum and fife band assembled and proceeded to Pontpembwl-the boundary line between Llandilo and Talley, where at about 6 p m. the eagerly expected hero arrived. From there escorted by a long procession with flags and bunting he was played through expectant crowds who, waving hats and handkerchiefs heartily cheered him to his home, where again he was met with redoubled cheers and the booming of guns. Having dismounted he was carried shoulder high through the crowd, and then after a little refreshment the procession headed by the band advanced through Edwinsford grounds, where Trooper Williams was met and heartily welcomed by Sir James H. W. Drummond, Bart. (the Lord Lieutenant), Lady Drummond, and Master Drummond, Lieutenant-General Sir James Hills-Jones G.C.B., V.C., and Lady Hills-Jones, and Mrs Jones, who were waiting to receive him. Leaving Edwinsford the procession bent its course to the Edwinsford Arms where a sumptuous reception supper had been prepared. After supper the usual toast-list, intermingled with songs, was gone through, with the Rev. J. H Lloyd, M.A., vicar, in the chair, which ended about 11 p.m., after which the procession again escorted the hero home amidst much shouting and hurrahing. The greatest credit is due to the Vicar, Messrs A. M. Jenkin, L. Bowen, W. Cook, Daniel Davies, David Evans, W. Thomas, David Davies, T. Morgans, and W. Rogers, who, as a committee, so successfully organised the reception. The Chairman and other speakers referred in eulogistic terms, amidst great applause, to the other representatives of Talley, namely, Lieutenant Clifton, Sergt. W. Evans, and Trooper J. Williams, who are still fighting for their King and country on the African veldt.
Evening Express 13th March 1901
LOCAL VOLUNTEERS AND THE WAR. The corporation committee to arrange for the reception of Swansea Volunteers on their return from South Africa met on Monday evening. It was decided that the men be welcomed at the Free Library by the mayor, that the route between the station and the library should be lined by local Volunteers, assisted by the police, and that bands should be in attendance. Refreshments are to be provided for the men, and a luncheon given them, their friends, and the old soldiers of the town at the market on the following day. A sub-committee consisting of the Mayor, Councillor David Davies, and Captain Colquhoun was appointed to make the necessary arrangements for a luncheon and conversazione. Illuminated addresses to be retained as souvenirs by the guests are to be provided. It was decided to communicate with the War Office as to the actual date of arrival. Enthusiasm and patriotism reached their climax at Talley on Saturday last, when Trooper Alfred Williams, of the 13th Hussars, came home from Netley Hospital, where for some six weeks he had been obliged to remain owing to enteric. Trooper Williams was met and heartily welcomed by Sir James H. W. Drummond, Bart., the lord-lieutenant, and Lady Drummond, Lieutenant-general Sir James Hills-Jones, G.C.B., V.C., Lady Hills- Jones, and Mrs. Jones, who were waiting to receive him. Leaving Edwinsford the procession bent its course to the Edwinsford Arms, where a reception supper had been prepared. Other representatives of Talley, namely, Lieutenant Clifton, Sergeant W. Evans, and Trooper J. Williams, are still fighting for their King and country on the African veldt. A smoker was held on Monday evening at the Royal Hotel, Rhymney, under the presidency of Captain Thomas Edwards, of the "K" Company 2nd Volunteer Battalion South Wales Borderers. Lieutenants W. R. Jackson and F. J. Trump and over 100 were present to bid God-speed to Privates W. Goode and D. Hughes, who are leaving for South Africa with the Active Service Company South Wales Borderers. They were each presented with £4 4s. 6d. tobacco pouches, and pipes.
21st February 1902
Letter from the Front. FROM A TALLEY BOY. The following letter was received by the vicar of Talley on Monday by Trooper Alfred Williams, grandson of Mrs Williams, Melinwaun. He is in the 13th Hussars. Last year he was invalided home, but on recovery was sent out a second time last December Rein Sprait, Near Middleburgh, Transvaal, Jan. 12, 1902. Dear Mr Lloyd I now take the pleasure of writing these few lines to let you know how I am getting on. We had a very fair voyage out, and arrived at Durban on the 20th December. We got into Pretoria on Christmas Day and waited there for a week for horses. I went down to see Kruger's house. It is now used as an office for Baden Powell's Police. It is a rather common place for a President's house. A Sapper Church is opposite to it. We joined our regiment at Vaal Kop a few days ago. We are under Colonel Alanley-our Regiment, the 6th Dragoon Guards, and the Burgher Corps. We are capturing Boers every day, also a large number of cattle. We come in contact with them every day. We captured Commandant Brackenbach and a part of his commando yesterday. It is more dangerous now for the cavalry than ever, the Boers lie in ambush until the Scouts come up to them and then fire. When they capture any of our men, they take away everything from them, and send them back to our camp stripped. We very nearly took Jack Hinton, the famous train-wrecker yesterday. We galloped through them and caught a few of them. He got away himself by the skin of his teeth. There is a reward of JE2000 for his body dead or alive. He has murdered some of our men who were taken prisoners. I think the war will soon be over now. All the columns are on the move. Our horses are looking very poor. They are getting worn out. Tom Rees is getting on all right. We are both in the same tent. He wishes to be remembered t) all inquiring friends in Talley. Sergeant Evans is down at Stauderton. I have not seen him yet. We had three of our men severely wounded this morning. One of them slept next to me last night. Remember me to all the people round Talley. Hoping the war will soon be over, and that I shall soon be among them again. ALFRED WILLIAMS, 13th Hussars.
At present I haven't found anything more about Alfred, whether he married or had children.
The next census of 1871 for this family is now below:
At present I haven't found anything more about Alfred, whether he married or had children.
The next census of 1871 for this family is now below:
1871 WALES Census for David WILLIAMS
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 6
Entry 68: Melinwaun:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 55, Miller & Farmer of 39 Acres, Born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire
Mary WILLIAMS:, Wife, Married, 48, Farmer’s Wife, born Llanllwny, Carmanthenshire
Lettice Williams, daughter, Unmarried, 23, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Anne WILLIAMS, Unmarried, 20, Miller & Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Daniel WILLIAMS, son, 13, Scholar, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Jane WILLIAMS, daughter, Scholar, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
David WILLIAMS, son, 6, Scholar, born Talley, Carmarthenshire.
Daniel LEWIS, Servant, Unmarried, 16, Miller Servant, Born Llanfynydd, Carmarthenshire.
John THOMAS, Lodger, Married, Millstone Dresser, born Bangor, Cardiganshire.
So by 1871, the Williams family have moved to a mill again, this time on the Edinsford Estate called Melinwaun (Mill in the meadow) It looks like they were there by 1864, because, whilst all the other children above were born in Llansawel, David Coethyr Williams was born in Talley.
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 6
Entry 68: Melinwaun:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 55, Miller & Farmer of 39 Acres, Born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire
Mary WILLIAMS:, Wife, Married, 48, Farmer’s Wife, born Llanllwny, Carmanthenshire
Lettice Williams, daughter, Unmarried, 23, Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Anne WILLIAMS, Unmarried, 20, Miller & Farmer’s daughter, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Daniel WILLIAMS, son, 13, Scholar, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Jane WILLIAMS, daughter, Scholar, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
David WILLIAMS, son, 6, Scholar, born Talley, Carmarthenshire.
Daniel LEWIS, Servant, Unmarried, 16, Miller Servant, Born Llanfynydd, Carmarthenshire.
John THOMAS, Lodger, Married, Millstone Dresser, born Bangor, Cardiganshire.
So by 1871, the Williams family have moved to a mill again, this time on the Edinsford Estate called Melinwaun (Mill in the meadow) It looks like they were there by 1864, because, whilst all the other children above were born in Llansawel, David Coethyr Williams was born in Talley.
Alwyn, in his "Williams Pedigree" wrote this about David Williams, husband of Mary Evans, & father of all the children that we have been looking at just recently.
So here is a map showing Melinwaun:
It is right at the bottom of the page, where the river or Afon Cothi goes around the bend.
Here is a description of the mill from this website: http://www.dyfedarchaeology.org.uk/projects/medievalmills2012-14.pdf
It is right at the bottom of the page, where the river or Afon Cothi goes around the bend.
Here is a description of the mill from this website: http://www.dyfedarchaeology.org.uk/projects/medievalmills2012-14.pdf
PRN 12980
NAME MELIN WAUN TYPE CORN MILL/ FULLING MILL PERIOD Medieval
FORM Documents CONDITION Near Destroyed STATUS None recorded
NGR SN6340034400 COMMUNITY Talley COUNTY Carmarthenshire
HER DESCRIPTION
Site of a corn mill recorded on the 1st and 2nd edition Ordnance Survey maps. Not
shown on modern mapping (M.Ings, 2012)
The site was visited during the Cadw funded Mills Survey of 2012-14. The current owner
said that the mill building was demolished in the 1980s, with the roof slates, windows,
doors and timbers apparently removed to Bath and many of the stones, including the
quoins, utilised by a neighbour. The remainder was left as a demolition mound on the
site until clearance work started to make room for a polytunnel and timber barn. During
this work a length of the leat was uncovered, with an intact stone arch and the remains
of an iron and wooden wheel. This has now been infilled with rubble from the mill. Under
the footprint of the polytunnel, where the mill originally stood, a crescent of cobbles was
found. These were protected before being covered again. The remains of a mill stone
have been placed within the owner's garden. The remnant of the gully that fed the leat is
evident within the wooded slopes above the mill to the east (M.Ings, 2012)
The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser
14 January 1910
TO LET (with immediate possession) MELIN- WAUN, Talley. The above old-established double Corn and Grist Mill, with good water supply and modern machinery, together with fifty acres of Meadow and Pasture Land. It enjoys an excellent trade and the Buildings are commodious and in good repair. For further particulars apply at Cawdor Estate Office, Carmarthen.
MELIN WAUN;EDWINSFORD MILL https://archwilio.org.uk/arch/query/page.php?watprn=DAT5107&dbname=dat&tbname=core
Summary :
Also known as Melin Waun. Part of the Edwinsford estate, but mentioned in the Talley Parish Registers of 1685-1808 and possibly occupying the same site as a documented medieval mill. Whitewashed masonry mill building. The leat is one of two side streams running into the River Cothi and powered an internal, overshot waterwheel, which still survives, with a large oak shaft, 6 timber arms and an iron rim. There are two pairs of stones and much surviving machinery.
Description :
Stone whitewashed. Overshot wheel inside Hill at S. 6 wooden arms, iron rim, large oak shaft 2 pairs stones. A splendid complex with a large wheel and a great deal of machinery...the water source is one of two side streams running into the Cothi. It is on the modern estate of Edwinsford. Talley Parish Register AD 1684-1808 (TCASFC, 1913-1914, 9, 33)
So the water source for the mill is a tributary of the River Cothi-or as on the map Afon Cothi. Now that name Cothi, comes into the Williams family on 29 November 1864, when David Coethyr Williams was born.
Here are a couple of newspaper articles about David Coethyr Williams also known as Arthur Lovell.
The North Wales Express, 28 November 1890
A CARMARTHENSHIRE PHILOSOPHER. The current issue of the Sussex "County Herald" contains an article on Mr Arthur Lovell. a follower of Plato, Hegel, and Pythagoras," who has written several books on the art of living, and who intends to open a residential establishment for the cure of disease and the teaching of the Supreme Science of Mental Development." Mr Lovell's real name, it is stated, is David Coethyr Williams he is a native of Carmarthenshire, and was educated at Llansawel Grammar School, Llandovery College, and Glasgow University
Great things are prophesied (the Welsh- man says) in regard to a book which Messrs Chapman and Hall are about to publish, under the title, "The Ideal of Man." The author, "Arthur Lovell," is quite a young man, not yet twenty-six, but he has already gained considerable fame, especially in the Metropolis, as a scholar and popular lecturer on ethical subjects. As the book now about to be issued will bring the name of Arthur Lovell" prominently before the world, there seems to be no reason why his personality should not be made known to our readers. His real name is David Coethyr Williams. He was bom in December, 1864, at Melinwaun, Talley, Carmarthenshire. He was educated at Llandovery College and Glasgow University, and some of our local literary people may remember that he won the second prize at the Cardiff Eisteddfod for The Fall of Llewelyn." Mr Williams preached for a few years with the Calvinistic Methodists, and at Llansawel, where be made his first essay as a pulpit orator, his father is a deacon at the present time. We are not yet in a position to give a definite idea of the scope and object of The Ideal of Man," but we understand that the work makes Christianity the absolute goal of human progress, and that the author writes, not as a theologian, but from the standpoint of a man of letters.
"Mr Williams preached for a few years with the Calvinistic Methodists, and at Llansawel, where be made his first essay as a pulpit orator, his father is a deacon at the present time".
So his father was a deacon at the Calvinistic Methodists in Llansawel-is that David Williams or someone else?
NAME MELIN WAUN TYPE CORN MILL/ FULLING MILL PERIOD Medieval
FORM Documents CONDITION Near Destroyed STATUS None recorded
NGR SN6340034400 COMMUNITY Talley COUNTY Carmarthenshire
HER DESCRIPTION
Site of a corn mill recorded on the 1st and 2nd edition Ordnance Survey maps. Not
shown on modern mapping (M.Ings, 2012)
The site was visited during the Cadw funded Mills Survey of 2012-14. The current owner
said that the mill building was demolished in the 1980s, with the roof slates, windows,
doors and timbers apparently removed to Bath and many of the stones, including the
quoins, utilised by a neighbour. The remainder was left as a demolition mound on the
site until clearance work started to make room for a polytunnel and timber barn. During
this work a length of the leat was uncovered, with an intact stone arch and the remains
of an iron and wooden wheel. This has now been infilled with rubble from the mill. Under
the footprint of the polytunnel, where the mill originally stood, a crescent of cobbles was
found. These were protected before being covered again. The remains of a mill stone
have been placed within the owner's garden. The remnant of the gully that fed the leat is
evident within the wooded slopes above the mill to the east (M.Ings, 2012)
The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser
14 January 1910
TO LET (with immediate possession) MELIN- WAUN, Talley. The above old-established double Corn and Grist Mill, with good water supply and modern machinery, together with fifty acres of Meadow and Pasture Land. It enjoys an excellent trade and the Buildings are commodious and in good repair. For further particulars apply at Cawdor Estate Office, Carmarthen.
MELIN WAUN;EDWINSFORD MILL https://archwilio.org.uk/arch/query/page.php?watprn=DAT5107&dbname=dat&tbname=core
Summary :
Also known as Melin Waun. Part of the Edwinsford estate, but mentioned in the Talley Parish Registers of 1685-1808 and possibly occupying the same site as a documented medieval mill. Whitewashed masonry mill building. The leat is one of two side streams running into the River Cothi and powered an internal, overshot waterwheel, which still survives, with a large oak shaft, 6 timber arms and an iron rim. There are two pairs of stones and much surviving machinery.
Description :
Stone whitewashed. Overshot wheel inside Hill at S. 6 wooden arms, iron rim, large oak shaft 2 pairs stones. A splendid complex with a large wheel and a great deal of machinery...the water source is one of two side streams running into the Cothi. It is on the modern estate of Edwinsford. Talley Parish Register AD 1684-1808 (TCASFC, 1913-1914, 9, 33)
So the water source for the mill is a tributary of the River Cothi-or as on the map Afon Cothi. Now that name Cothi, comes into the Williams family on 29 November 1864, when David Coethyr Williams was born.
Here are a couple of newspaper articles about David Coethyr Williams also known as Arthur Lovell.
The North Wales Express, 28 November 1890
A CARMARTHENSHIRE PHILOSOPHER. The current issue of the Sussex "County Herald" contains an article on Mr Arthur Lovell. a follower of Plato, Hegel, and Pythagoras," who has written several books on the art of living, and who intends to open a residential establishment for the cure of disease and the teaching of the Supreme Science of Mental Development." Mr Lovell's real name, it is stated, is David Coethyr Williams he is a native of Carmarthenshire, and was educated at Llansawel Grammar School, Llandovery College, and Glasgow University
Great things are prophesied (the Welsh- man says) in regard to a book which Messrs Chapman and Hall are about to publish, under the title, "The Ideal of Man." The author, "Arthur Lovell," is quite a young man, not yet twenty-six, but he has already gained considerable fame, especially in the Metropolis, as a scholar and popular lecturer on ethical subjects. As the book now about to be issued will bring the name of Arthur Lovell" prominently before the world, there seems to be no reason why his personality should not be made known to our readers. His real name is David Coethyr Williams. He was bom in December, 1864, at Melinwaun, Talley, Carmarthenshire. He was educated at Llandovery College and Glasgow University, and some of our local literary people may remember that he won the second prize at the Cardiff Eisteddfod for The Fall of Llewelyn." Mr Williams preached for a few years with the Calvinistic Methodists, and at Llansawel, where be made his first essay as a pulpit orator, his father is a deacon at the present time. We are not yet in a position to give a definite idea of the scope and object of The Ideal of Man," but we understand that the work makes Christianity the absolute goal of human progress, and that the author writes, not as a theologian, but from the standpoint of a man of letters.
"Mr Williams preached for a few years with the Calvinistic Methodists, and at Llansawel, where be made his first essay as a pulpit orator, his father is a deacon at the present time".
So his father was a deacon at the Calvinistic Methodists in Llansawel-is that David Williams or someone else?
The Carmarthen Weekly Reporter 29th November 1901
A CARMARTHENSHIRE MYSTIC. The Sussex County Herald very warmly praises the philosophic works of Mr Arthur Lovell, and warns to readers against supposing that as a lecturer he is one of the "ordinary American variety" meaning, presumably, faith healers, and what not. Our contemporary concludes the article on the books by the following biographical notice of their author. We have hitherto spoken of the author by the name he has assumed- Arthur Lovell-but be it said that his real name is David Coethyr Williams. Born in 1864, in Carmarthenshire, Wales, he was educated at Llandovery College and Glasgow University." "At the age of 13, having been previously educated at Llansawel Grammar School, of which he had been head boy for over eighteen months, he passed into the fifth form of Llandovery College, winning a foundation scholarship on the first opportunity that presented itself. Coethyr-Williams was intended for the Church and Oxford University. When not quite 17 years of age he was second on a list of nearly 200 boys, and, as it happened, the head boy had only just won a scholarship at Oxford, and it was our author's turn next to win University distinction for the school. But, to the great surprise of his friends and the headmaster (the present Bishop of St. Asaph) he determined not to go up to Oxford in the ordinary way, and took a post as classical master in a private school. After a few months be discontinued this, and returned home, with the intention of proceeding to Glasgow University. He was prompted to do this by having heard of the name of Professor Edward Caird, in connection with the exposition of Hegel's philosophy. found Coethyr-Williams was already a firm idealist, and determined to study the German school of philosophy, directly under a professor who was a pronounced Hegelian. But before going to Glasgow, the youthful student and thinker incidentally heard that the National Eisteddfod of Wales had offered three prizes for the best stories in English on some subject connected with Wales. When he heard of the competition only three or four weeks remained for the sending in of MSS. In that short space of time he wrote and dispatched his novel, which was entitled "The Fall of Llewellyn, the last of the Welsh Princes." The story won the second prize of LIO, the first being taken by an experienced author. However, Mr Coethyr- Williams' story was considered by the adjudicators to be a novel of considerable merit, and it was warmly received when it subsequently ran as a serial in the South Wales Weekly News. The author was only 18 at the time." "Having accomplished this success he proceeded to Glasgow University. At this time he was undecided what profession to follow, having definitely abandoned the Church. Nevertheless, he studied very deeply on his own lines, paying particular attention to Kant, Hegel, and Plato. In fact, his studies covered the whole ground of philosophy from the early Greek philosophers to Comte an Spencer. It appears that he had no ambition whatever to have a distinguished University career. Indeed, he left without taking a degree, as he could most easily have done, the classical work required for the degree of M.A. being mere child's play to him." "At Glasgow Mr Coethyr Williams turned his attention to health, and began to study for the regular medical curriculum. But, seeking, as he was then, for a real theory of health, he gave up his intention, as soon as he seriously tackled the conflicting opinions of the medical text books. He left Glasgow, and settled down in London, where, at the age of 25, he wrote his first book, 'The Ideal of Man.' Published by Messrs Chapman and Hall, the work was received in a most commendatory manner by the Press. Our author had now come to the end of the philosophy of the schools. He yet hungered after something more, something to bridge over the immense gulf between theory and practice. After persistent thought and study he gradually formulated and elaborated the Ars Vivendi System, which may be explained as an attempt to put forward in a practical manner the best that has been thought by the best thinkers both of East and West." Mr Lovell has drawn around himself a large circle- constantly increasing-of all sorts and conditions of men and women-doctors, clergymen, lawyers, business men, scientists, philosophic students of life, men and women of fashion and rank-who are all striving to master the art of living. Though his success has been great, we have ample reason to believe that it is small to what it will yet become. Mr Lovell intends, in a few years, to open a large residential establishment for the cure of disease and the teaching of the Supreme Science of Mental Development. In conclusion, it may be mentioned that he is a Freemason and a Rosicrucian." Surg.-Gen. Evatt, Principal Medical-officer of the Western Division, Devonport, visited Carmarthen on Thursday last, and made an inspection of the Barracks, hospital, &c. A PALPABLE HIT.-The success which attended the Van Houten Cocoa House at the Glasgow Exhibition may be judged from the fact that no fewer than 534,572 cups of cocoa were served at their Tasting Exhibit during the run of the Exhibition. On several occasions the number of cups served exceeded 5,000 per diem, and on one day reached 7,495. The house itself, with its artistic designs and tasteful furnishings, was admitted to be one of the features of the Exhibition, but what undoubtedly drew the visitors was the attraction which a cup of this celebrated Cocoa has for all Cocoa drinkers.
David Coethyr Williams married a widow called Susan Buckeridge
Above is a marriage bond: Diocese of London, on 7th December 1888:
Appeared Personally, David Coethyr WILLIAMS of the Parish of St. Matthew Oakley Square in the County of Middlesex a Bachelor of the age of twenty one years & upwards and prayed a Licence for the Solemnization of Matrimony in the said Parish Church of Saint Matthew, Oakley Square between him and Susan BUCKERIDGE of the Parish of Bournemouth in the County of Southampton, a widow. .... And he further made oath that he said Appeard hath his usual Place of abode within the said Parish of Saint Matthew, Oakley Square for the past Fifteen days last past.
David Coethyr Williams.
So his wife, Susan BUCKERIDGE was a widow in December 1888; her former husband was an Arthur BUCKERIDGE. He had died in Bournemouth on January 27, 1888-
Western Gazette - Friday 03 February 1888
Buckeridge.—Jan. 27, »t Bournemouth, Arthur Buckeridge, second son of the late Rev. Alfred Buckeridge, of St. James's Rectory, Exeter, aged 29.
There is a marriage record in 1881 at St George, Hanover Square London between Arthur Buckeridge & Susan Williams on October 1881 on Free BMD: St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 735-that seems unlikely I think as she was only 10 years of age in 1881.
David Coethyr Williams married a widow called Susan Buckeridge
Appeared Personally, David Coethyr WILLIAMS of the Parish of St. Matthew Oakley Square in the County of Middlesex a Bachelor of the age of twenty one years & upwards and prayed a Licence for the Solemnization of Matrimony in the said Parish Church of Saint Matthew, Oakley Square between him and Susan BUCKERIDGE of the Parish of Bournemouth in the County of Southampton, a widow. .... And he further made oath that he said Appeard hath his usual Place of abode within the said Parish of Saint Matthew, Oakley Square for the past Fifteen days last past.
David Coethyr Williams.
So his wife, Susan BUCKERIDGE was a widow in December 1888; her former husband was an Arthur BUCKERIDGE. He had died in Bournemouth on January 27, 1888-
Western Gazette - Friday 03 February 1888
Buckeridge.—Jan. 27, »t Bournemouth, Arthur Buckeridge, second son of the late Rev. Alfred Buckeridge, of St. James's Rectory, Exeter, aged 29.
There is a marriage record in 1881 at St George, Hanover Square London between Arthur Buckeridge & Susan Williams on October 1881 on Free BMD: St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 735-that seems unlikely I think as she was only 10 years of age in 1881.
So you can see that this David Williams was a completely different child than the other children so far, and he had many different opportunities than the other children too.
This what Alwyn wrote about him in his "Williams Pedigree"
This is the probate record of David Williams or Arthur Lovell
Name & Address
Beneficiaries & Executors
Amount in will
Legal persons
So those were the children of David Williams and Mary Evans-at least all of them were apart from David Coethyr. The other child was Daniel Edmund Williams, but first of all lets look at what happened to David & Mary Williams.
In the 1891 Census, David Williams was 74 & his wife Mary 68.
1891 Census for David WILLIAMS
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 06
Schedule 3: Melinwaun:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 74, Farmer & Miller, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Speaks Welsh
Mary WILLIAMS, Wife, Married, 68, Born Llanllwni, Cardiganshire, speaks Welsh.
Ann WILLIAMS, Daughter, Single, 38, Miller’s Assisitant, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Speaks Welsh.
Sarah WILLIAMS, daughter, Single, 33, Domestic Assistant, Born Llansawel, Carmathenshire, Speaks both English & Welsh.
Alfred WILLIAMS, Grandson, 11, Scholar, born Talley, Carmarthenshire, Speaks both English & Welsh.
David Davies, Grandson, Single, 16, Farm Servant, Born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire, Speaks, both English & Welsh.
Ezra William Francy, Lodger, Single, 37, Carpenter, Born, Sloley, Norfolk, Speaks English.
Henry Edwards, Lodger, Single, 24, Painter, Born Norwich, Norfolk, Speaks English.
George Alburn, Lodger, Single, 30, Painter, Born Norwich, Norfolk, Speaks English
Well David Williams died 30 March 1892, as can be seen on this gravestone in St Sawyl's Churchyard.
David Williams
FELINWAUN, TALLEY, OF THEIR DEAD MARCH 30, 1892
Alwyn suggests in his account that after the death of David Williams the family gave up the mill Melinwaun, but on the 1901 census, 1901 Wales Census for Mary Williams
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 6
Schedule No. 50. Melinwaun
Mary WILLIAMS, Head, Widow, 78, Farmer & Miller (Grist Mill), Own account, Working at home, Born Llansawel, speaks Welsh.
Anne WILLIAMS, daughter, single, 45, Working at home, Born Llansawel, speaks English & Welsh.
Sarah WILLIAMS, daughter, single, 43, Working at home, Born Llansawel, speaks English & Welsh.
Alfred WILLIAMS, nephew, single, 21, Soldier on Furlaugh, Born Talley, speaks English & Welsh.
So in this census, Mary still is in the mill, which is a grist mill-A gristmill grinds grain into flour. The term can refer to both the grinding mechanism and the building that holds it. her daughters Anne & Sarah are there too, and Alfred is on leave from the Boer War, where he is a Major in the British Army 13th Hussars.
Mary stays in the mill until 1910 as this advertisement suggests:
The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser
14 January 1910
TO LET (with immediate possession) MELIN- WAUN, Talley. The above old-established double Corn and Grist Mill, with good water supply and modern machinery, together with fifty acres of Meadow and Pasture Land. It enjoys an excellent trade and the Buildings are commodious and in good repair. For further particulars apply at Cawdor Estate Office, Carmarthen.
Certainly,a year later, Mary is living elsewhere:
1911 Wales Census for Mary Williams
Carmarthenshire, Talley, District 6
Parc-y-dilfa, Talley, Llandilo: Mary WILLIAMS, Head, 88, Widow, no occupation, born Carmarthenshire, Llanllwni, Speaks Welsh
Sarah WILLIAMS, daughter, 54, Born Carmarthenshire, Llansawel, Speaks both English & Welsh
The map below shows Parc-y-Dilfa in woodland,
Now a close up of Parc-y-Dilfa
Evening Express 4 November 1905
ALLEY SHOOTING MISHAP PROVES FATAL. Mr. David Evans, Parcydilfa, Cwmdu, Talley (Carmarthenshire), who was injured on Thursday by the accidental discharging of a gun (as reported
yesterday) succumbed to his injuries on Friday. The deceased would be 80 years of age next week. He had been in the employ of the family for upwards of 40 years. He leaves a widow and ten children, all grown up. This incident must have happened to the occupant of Parc-y-dilfa before Mary Williams went to live at this property which was owned by the owner of Edwinsford.
So Mary & her daughter Sarah went to live at this house which Alwyn says he went to and took a photograph of it. Sarah lived at Parc-y-Dilfa for about 2 years before she died in 1912. She was buried at St Sawyl graveyard-here's her stone inscription.
HEFYD AM SARAH EU MERCH BU FARW MEDI 22 AM 1912 YN 37 MLWYDD OED
ALSO FOR THEIR DAUGHTER SARAH WHO DIED ON 22 SEPTEMBER 1912 AGED 37 YEARS
Her mother, Mary died on Friday January 1 1915-here's the inscription on her gravestone in English-yes it was written in Welsh.
Here's the funeral card
So now let's consider Daniel Edmund Williams, Frances's great grandfather. Alwyn wrote a lot about Daniel, who changed his name to David. Here is a photograph of Daniel with his wife Rebecca.
Daniel WILLIAMS, son, 3, Farmer’s son, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.
Ten years later in 1871, Daniel WILLIAMS, son, 13, Scholar, born Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.living at MelinWaun.
In the next 10 years, he leaves home, marries & changes his forename.
Rock Hall Cottage on the Roaches.
When I visited Harpur Hill Methodist Church on 12 June 2016, I found this gravestone of David Williams & his wife Rebecca Williams nee Mellor.
IN LOVING MEMORY OF REBECCA WILLIAMS WIFE OF DAVID WILLIAMS OF HARPUR HILL WHO DIED JAN 26TH 1941 AGED 81 YEARS.
ALSO OF DAVID WILLIAMS WHO DIED AUGUST 13TH 1942 AGED 85 YEARS.
THEIR LIVES WERE BLESSED WITH GOODNESS. THEIR FAITH WAS NEVER DEAD.
AND NOW WITH CHRIST THEIR SAVIOUR ALL IS COMPLETE IN HIM.
ALSO EDITH MAY DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE WHO DIED JUNE 19TH 1903 AGED 6 MONTHS.
ALSO OF DAVID WILLIAMS WHO DIED AUGUST 13TH 1942 AGED 85 YEARS.
THEIR LIVES WERE BLESSED WITH GOODNESS. THEIR FAITH WAS NEVER DEAD.
AND NOW WITH CHRIST THEIR SAVIOUR ALL IS COMPLETE IN HIM.
ALSO EDITH MAY DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE WHO DIED JUNE 19TH 1903 AGED 6 MONTHS.
Daniel or David & his wife Rebecca had this number of children between them.
1. Mary Jane Williams born 27 9 1880, married 26 November 1903, died 29 August 1973.
When Mary Jane Williams was born on 27 September 1880 in Warslow, Staffordshire, her father, Daniel, was 23, and her mother, Rebecca, was 21.
1881 England Census for David & Rebecca Williams nee Mellor
Stffordshire, Warslow & Elkstone, District 8
Schedule 46: Forkhill:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 23, Game Keeper, Born Wales
Rebecca WILLIAMS, Wife, Married, 21, Born Larkfrith, Staffordshire
Mary Jane WILLIAMS, daughter, 6 months, born Warslow, Staffordshire
Jane MELLOR, widow, widow, 66, Button Maker, born Larkfrith, Staffordshire.
So in 1881, Rebecca Mellor was married to David Williams and living at an address called Forkhill, which was near Warslow-her mother, Jane, a widow was also living with them. Her husband & Rebecca's father Philip had died in 1873. From the birth records of Mary Jane's siblings, it seems that the family moved from Fork Hill to Harpur Hill, Buxton, before 6 January 1884.
Above is a map of Warslow in 1879, with Forkhill on the top left hand side, with Warslow centre on the bottom right hand side & Warslow Hall on the right hand side.
Her brother James Henry was born on 25 October 1881 in Warslow, Staffordshire, when Mary Jane was 1 year old. Mary Jane Williams lived in Warslow, Staffordshire, in 1881 according to the census of that year.
Alwyn Williams wrote this about his grandparents move to Harpur Hill.
So in the above maps which show Harpur Hill in 1899, you can see the Lime works and quarry in Harpur Hill and in the second map Burlow Cottages, next to Burlow Farm, close to a reservoir.
Her brother David Edmund was born on 6 January 1884 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 3 years old. So the rest of the children of David & Rebecca are born in Burlow Cottages. On the map above you can also see the Methodist Chapel.
Her sister Alice Anne was born on 31 December 1885 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 5 years old. Her sister Sarah Eliza was born on 26 October 1888 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 8 years old. Her brother George Arthur was born on 26 November 1890 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 10 years old. In the census of 1891, the family are at Harpur Hill, Buxton. David & Rebecca have 5 children & 3 lodgers at their home in Harpur Hill.
1891 England Census for David & Rebecca Williams nee Mellor
Derbyshire, Hartingdon Upper quarter, District 6
Schedule 55, Hasling Cottage:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 33, General Labourer, Born Llandilo, Carmarthanshire
Rebecca WILLIAMS, wife, Married, 31, Born Leek, Staffordshire
Mary J WILLIAMS, Daughter,10, Single, Scholar, born Warslow, Staffordshire
James H WILLIAMS, Son, single, 9, Scholar, born Warslow, Staffordshire
David E WILLIAMS, son, single, 7, Scholar, born Harpur Hill Derbyshire
Alice A WILLIAMS, daughter, single, 1, Scholar, born Harpur Hill Derbyshire
George A. WILLIAMS, son, single, 4 months, born Harpur Hill Derbyshire
George HIDES, Lodger, widower, 59, General Labourer, Born Welton, Buckinghamshire
Thomas MELLOR, Lodger, Single, General Labourer, born Leek, Staffordshire
Thomas F. Grundy, Lodger, Single, 21, General Labourer, born Warslow, Staffordshire
Hasling Cottage may well have been on Hasling Road which now is off Burlow Road.
When Mary Jane Williams was born on 27 September 1880 in Warslow, Staffordshire, her father, Daniel, was 23, and her mother, Rebecca, was 21.
1881 England Census for David & Rebecca Williams nee Mellor
Stffordshire, Warslow & Elkstone, District 8
Schedule 46: Forkhill:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 23, Game Keeper, Born Wales
Rebecca WILLIAMS, Wife, Married, 21, Born Larkfrith, Staffordshire
Mary Jane WILLIAMS, daughter, 6 months, born Warslow, Staffordshire
Jane MELLOR, widow, widow, 66, Button Maker, born Larkfrith, Staffordshire.
So in 1881, Rebecca Mellor was married to David Williams and living at an address called Forkhill, which was near Warslow-her mother, Jane, a widow was also living with them. Her husband & Rebecca's father Philip had died in 1873. From the birth records of Mary Jane's siblings, it seems that the family moved from Fork Hill to Harpur Hill, Buxton, before 6 January 1884.
Her brother James Henry was born on 25 October 1881 in Warslow, Staffordshire, when Mary Jane was 1 year old. Mary Jane Williams lived in Warslow, Staffordshire, in 1881 according to the census of that year.
Alwyn Williams wrote this about his grandparents move to Harpur Hill.
So in the above maps which show Harpur Hill in 1899, you can see the Lime works and quarry in Harpur Hill and in the second map Burlow Cottages, next to Burlow Farm, close to a reservoir.
Her brother David Edmund was born on 6 January 1884 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 3 years old. So the rest of the children of David & Rebecca are born in Burlow Cottages. On the map above you can also see the Methodist Chapel.
Her sister Alice Anne was born on 31 December 1885 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 5 years old. Her sister Sarah Eliza was born on 26 October 1888 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 8 years old. Her brother George Arthur was born on 26 November 1890 in Harpur Hill, Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 10 years old. In the census of 1891, the family are at Harpur Hill, Buxton. David & Rebecca have 5 children & 3 lodgers at their home in Harpur Hill.
1891 England Census for David & Rebecca Williams nee Mellor
Derbyshire, Hartingdon Upper quarter, District 6
Schedule 55, Hasling Cottage:
David WILLIAMS, Head, Married, 33, General Labourer, Born Llandilo, Carmarthanshire
Rebecca WILLIAMS, wife, Married, 31, Born Leek, Staffordshire
Mary J WILLIAMS, Daughter,10, Single, Scholar, born Warslow, Staffordshire
James H WILLIAMS, Son, single, 9, Scholar, born Warslow, Staffordshire
David E WILLIAMS, son, single, 7, Scholar, born Harpur Hill Derbyshire
Alice A WILLIAMS, daughter, single, 1, Scholar, born Harpur Hill Derbyshire
George A. WILLIAMS, son, single, 4 months, born Harpur Hill Derbyshire
George HIDES, Lodger, widower, 59, General Labourer, Born Welton, Buckinghamshire
Thomas MELLOR, Lodger, Single, General Labourer, born Leek, Staffordshire
Thomas F. Grundy, Lodger, Single, 21, General Labourer, born Warslow, Staffordshire
Hasling Cottage may well have been on Hasling Road which now is off Burlow Road.
In the above map of Harpur Hill in 1899, Haslin Row is off Burlow Road, & Haslin House isn't far away as well.The Buxton & High Peak Railway line runs behind the house.
So David Williams was working as a general labourer most likely in the Harpurhill Works.
ten years later the Williams family were still in Harpur Hill or is it Harper Hill?
Mary Jane's sister Susannah was born on 23 April 1892 in Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 11 years old, Her sister Ellen was born on 26 January 1895 in Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 14 years old, Her sister Lilian was born on 16 November 1901 when Mary Jane was 21 years old.
1901 England census
Derbyshire, Hartingdon Upper Quarter District 11
Contents of Enumeration District
1901 census –Registration District Chapel en le Frith, Enumeration District 11, Registration Sub-district, Buxton.
Eccl. Parish of Burbage Christ Church, Part of Hartingon Upper quarter, Civil Parish Part of
Begin at Parks Inn, taking all the houses on Harper Hill, Haslin House, and Braudside in Burbage Eccl. Parish head Turncliff and Countess Cliff.
Schedule 9: Harper Hill:
David WILLIAMS, Head, M, 43, General Labourer, born Llandilo, Carmarthanshire
Rebecca WILLIAMS, wife, M, 42, born, Leek, Staffordshire
David E. WILLIAMS, son, S, 17, General Labourer, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Alice A. WILLIAMS, daughter, S, 15, At home, born Buxton, Derbyshire
George A. WILLIAMS, son, 11, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Susannah WILLIAMS, daughter, 8, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Ellen WILLIAMS, daughter, 6, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Thomas MELLOR, Boarder, 42, General Labourer, Born Leek, Staffordshire
You can see where the Parks Inn is on the map above, and in the 1901 census, although no actual road is listed, David & his family are the 9th entry in the census from Parks Inn and in that map above showing Harpur Hill in 1899, there aren't many houses on the map after Parks Inn, but Haslin House is visible. In fact Parks Inn is mentioned on Page 11 of the Census.
1901 England Census for Mary Jane WILLIAMS, Derbyshire, Buxton, District 5
In the 1901 Census this was the entry for that date:-
21, High Street, BUXTON:
Samuel SELBY, Head, Married, age 47, Boot & Shoe Dealer & sub-postmaster, Employer, at home, Born Gunby, Lincolnshire
Pauline B. SELBY, Wife, Married, Age 46, born Pontefract, Yorkshire.
Edgar T. SELBY, Son, Single, Sorting Clerk & Telegraphs, Worker, Born Buxton, Derbyshire
Wilfred E. SELBY, Son, Age 17, Board School Teacher, Worker, Born Buxton, Derbyshire
Jane SIMMS, mother-in-law, Widow, age 68, born Wheatley, Nottinghamshire
Mary Jane WILLIAMS, Servant, Single, Age 20, General Servant, domestic, Born Warslow, Derbyshire.
Amazing but later on Wilfred. E. Selby married Florence Martin, and they had a daughter Joan, who married Keith Williams, son of George Arthur Williams who in the census above was 11 years of age.
Getting back to Mary Jane Williams;- Her sister Edith May was born on 22 December 1902 when Mary Jane was 22 years old.Her sister Edith May died on 19 June 1903 in Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 22 years old.
She was buried in Harpur Hill Methodist Chapel graveyard-here's the inscription on the stone with her name on it. Clearly the stone was erected in 1941 when her mother died.
ALSO EDITH MAY DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE WHO DIED JUNE 19TH 1903 AGED 6 MONTHS.
The first marriage of this Williams family was that of Mary Jane Williams which took place in the October quarter of 1904, when she married Alfred Henry MILLS. Just wonder if this was her wedding photo:
This was her husband, Alfred Henry Mills:
The record states that the registration district where this marriage took place was Chapel-en-le-Frith, so most likely in Harpur Hill. I can't find the marriage record in a local newspaper, so only a marriage record would give me some details. It looks like both persons were members of local Methodist churches, so maybe the marriage took place at Harpur Hill Methodist Church.Alfred was born on 24 August 1882 in Heanor Derbyshire, son of Joseph & Sarah Mills. Certainly in the census of 1911, Mary Jane & Alfred with their 2 children were living in Heanor, Derbyshire where Alfred was working in the lace industry. In 1922, they both emigrated to the USA landing in New York, Ellis Island on 30 October 1922. I have found a record on Family Search
Alfred Henry Mills, New York Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), Last Place of Residence, Manchester, England, arrival date, 30 Oct 1922, Age, 41years, Nationality, Gt. Britain,
Departure Port, Liverpool, Arrival Port, New York, Ship Name,Cedric
Source: New York Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), 1892-1924," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JNV9-3TG : 6 December 2014), Alfred Henry Mills, 30 Oct 1922; citing departure port Liverpool, arrival port New York, ship name Cedric, NARA microfilm publication T715 and M237 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration. Now I am now absolutely sure that this is their record of entry into USA There is also a record of Mary Jane & Jessie Mills leaving the port of Southampton on board Zeeland on 13th January 1922.
Mary Jane travelled with Thomas Cook & Son Ludgate Circus, London
Anyway Mary Jane & Alfred Henry are living in New York by 1922. I have a record of their daughter Jessie dying in that city in the same year of arrival namely 1922, but no actual death date.
So David Williams was working as a general labourer most likely in the Harpurhill Works.
ten years later the Williams family were still in Harpur Hill or is it Harper Hill?
Mary Jane's sister Susannah was born on 23 April 1892 in Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 11 years old, Her sister Ellen was born on 26 January 1895 in Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 14 years old, Her sister Lilian was born on 16 November 1901 when Mary Jane was 21 years old.
1901 England census
Derbyshire, Hartingdon Upper Quarter District 11
Contents of Enumeration District
1901 census –Registration District Chapel en le Frith, Enumeration District 11, Registration Sub-district, Buxton.
Eccl. Parish of Burbage Christ Church, Part of Hartingon Upper quarter, Civil Parish Part of
Begin at Parks Inn, taking all the houses on Harper Hill, Haslin House, and Braudside in Burbage Eccl. Parish head Turncliff and Countess Cliff.
Schedule 9: Harper Hill:
David WILLIAMS, Head, M, 43, General Labourer, born Llandilo, Carmarthanshire
Rebecca WILLIAMS, wife, M, 42, born, Leek, Staffordshire
David E. WILLIAMS, son, S, 17, General Labourer, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Alice A. WILLIAMS, daughter, S, 15, At home, born Buxton, Derbyshire
George A. WILLIAMS, son, 11, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Susannah WILLIAMS, daughter, 8, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Ellen WILLIAMS, daughter, 6, born Buxton, Derbyshire
Thomas MELLOR, Boarder, 42, General Labourer, Born Leek, Staffordshire
You can see where the Parks Inn is on the map above, and in the 1901 census, although no actual road is listed, David & his family are the 9th entry in the census from Parks Inn and in that map above showing Harpur Hill in 1899, there aren't many houses on the map after Parks Inn, but Haslin House is visible. In fact Parks Inn is mentioned on Page 11 of the Census.
Mary Jane Williams wasn't with her family in the census of 1901, she was with a family in Buxton called Selby.
1901 England Census for Mary Jane WILLIAMS, Derbyshire, Buxton, District 5
In the 1901 Census this was the entry for that date:-
21, High Street, BUXTON:
Samuel SELBY, Head, Married, age 47, Boot & Shoe Dealer & sub-postmaster, Employer, at home, Born Gunby, Lincolnshire
Pauline B. SELBY, Wife, Married, Age 46, born Pontefract, Yorkshire.
Edgar T. SELBY, Son, Single, Sorting Clerk & Telegraphs, Worker, Born Buxton, Derbyshire
Wilfred E. SELBY, Son, Age 17, Board School Teacher, Worker, Born Buxton, Derbyshire
Jane SIMMS, mother-in-law, Widow, age 68, born Wheatley, Nottinghamshire
Mary Jane WILLIAMS, Servant, Single, Age 20, General Servant, domestic, Born Warslow, Derbyshire.
Amazing but later on Wilfred. E. Selby married Florence Martin, and they had a daughter Joan, who married Keith Williams, son of George Arthur Williams who in the census above was 11 years of age.
Getting back to Mary Jane Williams;- Her sister Edith May was born on 22 December 1902 when Mary Jane was 22 years old.Her sister Edith May died on 19 June 1903 in Buxton, Derbyshire, when Mary Jane was 22 years old.
She was buried in Harpur Hill Methodist Chapel graveyard-here's the inscription on the stone with her name on it. Clearly the stone was erected in 1941 when her mother died.
ALSO EDITH MAY DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE WHO DIED JUNE 19TH 1903 AGED 6 MONTHS.
The first marriage of this Williams family was that of Mary Jane Williams which took place in the October quarter of 1904, when she married Alfred Henry MILLS. Just wonder if this was her wedding photo:
Alfred Henry Mills, New York Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), Last Place of Residence, Manchester, England, arrival date, 30 Oct 1922, Age, 41years, Nationality, Gt. Britain,
Departure Port, Liverpool, Arrival Port, New York, Ship Name,Cedric
Source: New York Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), 1892-1924," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JNV9-3TG : 6 December 2014), Alfred Henry Mills, 30 Oct 1922; citing departure port Liverpool, arrival port New York, ship name Cedric, NARA microfilm publication T715 and M237 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration. Now I am now absolutely sure that this is their record of entry into USA There is also a record of Mary Jane & Jessie Mills leaving the port of Southampton on board Zeeland on 13th January 1922.
Anyway Mary Jane & Alfred Henry are living in New York by 1922. I have a record of their daughter Jessie dying in that city in the same year of arrival namely 1922, but no actual death date.
Mary Jane's younger brother was James Henry WILLIAMS, born 25 October 1881, he was the eldest son of the family of Daniel Edmund Williams & Rebecca Mellor. It was James Henry William's youngest son, Alwyn Drumond WILLIAMS who wrote Williams Pedigree, a Family History Pamphlet that I have quoted from in this blog and used to guide me produce this family History.
According to the 1940 Census on Family Search, Alfred & his wife Mary Jane and son Donald live in Queens New York City, Queens, Assembly District 3 on the corner of Leavitt Street & and 34th Road.
Found your blog searching for Duckering and then managed to connect another line through the Duftons... very interesting. Appreciate the confirmation of research and sharing photographs.
ReplyDeleteYes there are two Dufton Lines in my tree research aren't there but I don't seem to have made a connection between them yet. I could also add some more Duckering information if you wanted. Thanks for comments.
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